Transliterated Maori
September 12, 2019
By AHNZ
How did the Maori language/s change to incorporate new words from new people they met? Where do ‘loan words’ come from, or were they imposed from without or did Maoris adapt their own language? A thread of comments from an earlier post…
L.Jarman– Maori had no written language, it was the Europeans who decided it needed to become one. When new words were introduced to Maori e.g. soldier, Samson, soup, they were added to the written language but “Maorified” by the European authors i.e. by creating transliterations to make the European word sound “Maori”.
Anarchist History of New Zealand– I think we agree but you make it sound as though it were a cosmetic choice to make things sound Maori.
The Maoris transliterated all by themselves independently and the lettered Europeans faithfully wrote down these words in their books.
Nothing cosmetic about it. Maoris simply couldn’t say those words. The best they could do for an ‘s’ seems to have been to hiss or make a ‘shhhh’ sound. Only the new generation could do otherwise so the old dialect died out one funeral at a time. Or, evolved, to put it another way.
L.Jarman– Be good if you gave links to your info.
Anarchist History of New Zealand– Ask away. But please be specific
L.Jarman– Specifically re “The Maoris transliterated all by themselves independently and the lettered Europeans faithfully wrote down these words in their books.”
Anarchist History of New Zealand– Take a look at p313 of ‘Savage Life and Scenes in Australia and New Zealand,’ Angas (1847)
See if you can pull up the bit in there and we can discuss that for a start off.
L.Jarman– It does not say anything about Maori transliterating the words themselves.
Anarchist History of New Zealand Doesn’t say anything about the European authors doing any hand-holding either such as training Maoris how to say ‘soup’ in their own phonic set either.
On the contrary, the evidence is that Maoris were enthusiastic and capable of picking up new words all on their own and forming them into a shape that could fit their hardware.
What else? Are you suggesting European authors invented a new Maori language and taught it to the race like Coco the gorilla? If so- condescending!
“the natives are unable to pronounce many of these baptismal names, until softened down by the addition of vowels and the rejection of certain consonants incompatible with their own euphonious language. David, for instance, becomes Rawide with the New Zealander; Thomas, Tamite; William, Wiremu; Stephen, Tepeni; Solomon, Horomona; and so on.”- ibid
L.Jarman– You are basing your korero on what one European has written as if it is the gospel truth. It is his opinion and written in the condescending language of the time.
Anarchist History of New Zealand Not at all, this is just one source.
What are yours for supposing that Maori such as hupa, hoia, Tamite, Hone required white men to generate them before Maoris could think them and say them?
All due respect, it seems to stem from a condescending attitude rather than any findings. But correct me if I’m wrong.
L.Jarman– The expectation seems that Maori could not immediately pronounce many European words due to not having certain consonants in their reo, e.g. s. So hey, lets help the natives by transliterating the words. That was condescending. How many years have gone by and still many European cannot pronounce te reo.
Anarchist History of New Zealand Again, why suppose that Maoris did not do this for themselves? Do you think they are inferior at incorporating new words into a living language as all races do, including our own?
Why suppose a Maori would need outside help catching on to a new word and making it his own as if they are some dependent in need of a midwife or a special needs care person?
Do you have any evidence? Let’s have it.
Again, why suppose that Maoris did not do this for themselves? Do you think they are inferior at incorporating new words into a living language as all races do, including our own?
Why suppose a Maori would need outside help catching on to a new word and making it his own as if they are some dependent in need of a midwife or a special needs care person?
Do you have any evidence? Let’s have it.
D.Bell– Lyn, it’s also the case that this happened all over the world for thousands of years.
Gaels didn’t have ‘X’ sounds, so transliterated Alexander into Alisdair, for instance. Moving forward, the Anglos struggled with the pronunciation of Alisdair, so transliterated it to Alister, not knowing the etymology I suppose so it didn’t occur to them to say Alexander which they could pronounce.
Is it your first thought that the Greeks in their arrogance, forced this transliteration on the Gaels? Or does it seem more likely that they just fit the word to their familiar phonetic system? Ya know, kind of like us whiteys do with Maori. No Maori has ever forced me to transliterate a Maori word.
Another point, it’s a bit strange that you’d accuse the same people you accuse of forcing Maori to speak English under threat of violence, of being so accommodating, to the point of condescension, of the native tongue.
The narrative doesn’t quite add up for me.
R. Marie– You’re exactly right Lyn.
Obviously well educated.
L.Jarman– D.Bell All I am asking is for proof as to who initiated the transliteration of European words into te reo. Māori had their own beautiful words that were then “Europeanised”. Examples are months of the year and days of the week. Poutū-te-rangi became Maehe (March). Rāhina became Mane (Monday). Was this done because European could not pronounce te reo?
Anarchist History of New Zealand Lyn, this is an organic symbol-making act that all human beings are capable of performing. Words are not made by bookish academics or legislators and handed down to mindless drone-people. Finding the “first” translator is quite meaningless, especially if you’re doing it in order to incriminate one ‘side’ or another.
Captain Cook didn’t show up and ask to be called ‘Kāpene Kuki’ and nor did he insist Maoris outsource their symbol-making to outsiders and accept the results. This seems to come from a presumption of Imperialist paranoia in your schema. You’re looking for it.
I’m hesitant to offer up any suspects if you intend to prosecute a witch hunt for Transliterating Globalist Imperialist Flagwavers (TGIFs.) However, if anyone, one man your Monty Python Spanish Inquisition should subpoena is Tupaia the Navigator.
D.Bell– My proof is human history. Human history did not start with the colonisation of New Zealand. We can see the same things you’re describing happening throughout history. If there is something distinct about what happened here where we live, then you can point that out.
I don’t see any difference, so I’ve no reason to adopt a narrative other than what I think is the null hypothesis!
L.Jarman– If the Anarchist hadn’t posted “When the Maoris took up English words one of the first things they did was to strip out every ‘s'”, then we wouldn’t be having this interesting kōrero so I guess we have to thank him/her for that. I don’t like it when people make sweeping statements about anything without regard to the source or the effect it might have on those reading it. I am interested in languages and how they have changed and am open to what you are saying, and hope that you also take on board my comments. I am not looking for a witch hunt as suggested by the Anarchist, just trying to get my head around his biased comments.
Anarchist History of New Zealand I was saying the same thing this morning myself about you. Thanks for generating this very interesting topic (of course from my point of view I’m Sherlock Holmes and you’re Doctor Watson.)
L.Jarman– Anarchist History of New Zealand Why do you insist on adding ‘s’ onto ‘Māori’ when you say there is no ‘s’ in te reo??
Anarchist History of New Zealand This page is written for English-speaking New Zealanders. The English plural of ‘Maori’ is ‘Maoris’ and that’s how you’ll see it written in our history books too.
I insist on putting in an ‘s’ because I am an English speaker. The word ‘Maori’ when one means ‘Maoris’ is not an English word but belongs to the Maori language. More about this in tomorrow’s post.
In the Maori language plural or singular is indicated by another word such as ‘nga’ or ‘te’ going where in English ‘the’ would go. In English our nouns are pluralised more often than not by adding on an ‘s’ to the end.
Everyone knows that perfectly well. You know that perfectly well. But somehow it has become chic to pretend not to know what we know. It’s a habit of subservience to the Political Correctness moral panic I’m rebelling against.
—
Like Comment Share
